藤原丨尤介 发表于 2012-2-22 13:08:41

[翻译]国外高手谈环境(转)

31卡表刚刚公布,OT两边的很多玩家都表示不能接受。对于TCG来说,新卡表对大比赛环境的改变几乎是没有的,代行和植物在发条和甲虫发售之后已经变成“过气”的卡组。而今天举行的YCS亚特兰大正是证明了这一点,目前第六轮过后,前10桌中有4甲虫,3发条,还有一个发条加甲虫。不过更重要的是,前10桌加起来20个卡组里,植物和代行的数量都是零。31表公布后,令我感到不解的并不是甲虫和发条毫发无损,而是代行和植物这2个强度已经掉出1线的卡组被狠狠的打击。其实想想,K社一贯的作风好像都是让最强的卡组先活6个月,然后打击到不能玩的程度。植物活了这么久,这次终于被打击到死死的了,天狗植物这个所谓“均卡”的卡组也玩完了。TCG现在剩下的三巨头就只有兔,发条,和甲虫了。其中2个都是K社推销的系列卡组。翻译这篇文章主要是想给大家分享一下一个平静对待任何新卡,卡表的心理。下面是文。

作者是Alistar Albans 2011年YCS多次上位 其中有亚军
大家在寻找现在最强的卡组的路上产生了对现环境很多错误的理解和不好的理论。在DGZ(相当于NW)和Facebook(人人)上,我会看到好和不好的玩家都在说“起手没有群C和遮蔽的话就死吧”之类的话,但是其实并不是那么简单的。我保证这不能总结环境的现状。虽然现在有很多变态的T1战术,但是这并不代表游戏王变成了一个猜拳游戏。

我想跟大家讲,就算对于我们ARG(大多数著名“职业"玩家的赞助商),我们也不是特别明确现在到底应该玩什么或者side什么。我们没有人有对现在环境所有问题的解决方法。我们需要做的是:选择一个有强度的,稳定的,你了解的卡组并且跟主流卡组有足够的测试。这是我一直的想法,而且在现在这个想法比以前更重要。如果我们看一下现在的主流(发条,甲虫,兔,和植物),客观而言的确有很多“不公平”的组合和战术。你也可以说对于几个卡组,特定的起手基本能可以确定胜利。但是,就像我说过,还是没那么绝对的。

在我最近的测试中,我发现好多时候都是神警,魔族链,遮蔽,增值G,和其他常用卡的来回的反击。目前来说,简单战术的价值很高。一个发条玩家逼对手用群C后没有赚到卡,可以把自己放在一个优势的位置因为下一回合可以再试一次,或者已经有航母,兔,甚至工厂这些卡来确保场上优势。这可能不是最好的例子,但是确实是经常发生的一个。

历来所谓"不好“的卡表(并不一定指现在的)中,运气永远都不会让上位比失败更容易。用另一个说法,运气可以轻易让你输,但是永远都不是你成功的主要原因。历史证明,更好的玩家总是可以赢,不管什么卡表。我讲的不是一个match,而是整个比赛。起手没手坑,被发条扔掉大多数手牌是难免的,但是如果你用发条的话你也可以做同样的事,或者你的对手有能够达成削手combo的手牌但是后攻,这意味着被干扰的几率大得多,因为不管手坑,一般的陷阱也可以做同样的事。标配陷阱在对抗兔和发条的时候都是非常重要的。那2个卡组最厉害的战术都是在不被干扰的前提下达成的。在测试中我发现发条和兔很容易输给一个时机正好的神警或者激流葬——这是很多玩家没有意料到的,也是他们抱怨新卡毁了这个游戏的原因。
In the midst of searching for a sleeper, an absolutely broken deck to trounce all the other top deck picks, the community has caused a frenzy of misconceptions and bad theory surrounding the very core of the format.Everywhere from DuelistGroundz to Facebook, I see both good and bad players alike saying things like “open Maxx “C” or Effect Veiler or lose” when it’s simply not that black and white.That does not correctly sum up our current format, I promise.   Though I agree that too many degenerate turn one strategies are currently thriving, I don’t believe that this results in a “coin flip format” like many have heralded in previous formats not long ago.

First and foremost, I’d like to point out that everyone, even us here at ARG, is uncertain about what to run and side deck to at least some extent.No one here has the be all end all answer to the format’s problems.What we hope to do, and what our readers should hope to do is this: play a solid, consistent, known deck to the best of your ability, with as much practice against the meta as you can possibly have backing you and your choice.I’ve preached this idea time and time again, but it holds more weight now than ever before.If we look at the top picks (Wind-Ups, Inzektors, Rabbit, and Plants), I think it’s fair to say that they’re all capable of “unfair” plays and setups.You could, perhaps, even make the argument that going first with any sort of solid hand with those decks will grant you a swift path to victory.But, as I’ve said, it’s not all so cut and dry.

In my recent testing, many of the mirrors and non-mirrors I’ve played result in lots of counters back and forth in the form of common cards such as Solemn Warning, Fiendish Chain, Effect Veiler, Maxx “C”, and all of the other usual suspects.Getting value out of simple plays is more important now than ever.A Wind-Up player facing off against against a lesser opponent running a deck of equal power can take advantage of his opponent’s early Maxx “C” drops by going into setups where Maxx “C” nets no advantage, and leaves the Wind-Up player ready to go off on the next turn or, in the very least, command the current board with Wind-Up Arsenal Zenmaity and Wind-Up Rabbit (and possibly even Wind-Up Factory).This might not the best example, but it’s at least one that happens often enough with a solid player in the captain’s seat.

Make sure to keep in mind that in every historically “bad” format of Yu-Gi-Oh! (which doesn’t necessarily define this one), luck never plays nearly as big a factor in winning or topping a tournament as it does in getting knocked out of one.Simply put, luck can play a big roll in having you knocked out of a tournament, while on the other hand, luck is almost never the sole reason you succeed in a tournament.Historically, the better player wins regardless of the format.Period.This isn’t on a match-to-match basis; rather, an entire tournament basis.It’s no secret that there will be several times in your tournament, be it in Atlanta or at your local regional qualifier, where your opponent discards most of your hand on their first turn because you didn’t open with a hand trap, but I and many other players believe that this will inevitably come full circle with scenarios seeing a combination of you discarding your opponent’s hand (should you choose to run Wind-Ups yourself), your opponent simply not opening a discard combo, your opponent opening a discard combo but not going first, thus leaving themselves to disruption in the form of not only hand traps, but (whaddyaknow) conventional traps as well!I cannot emphasize how big of a roll standard traps play in Wind-Up and Dino Rabbit match ups.All of both of those deck’s biggest plays revolve around not being disrupted in the slightest.I’ve found that many hands I’ve tested with Rabbit or Wind-Ups simply lose to a timely Solemn Warning or Torrential – I think this fact is heavily underappreciated amongst many of this game’s players, and instead we resort to complaining about how the new set is “ruining” the game.
作者:泉こなた
链接:http://bbs.newwise.com/thread-573138-1-1.html

邪心 发表于 2012-2-22 13:35:58

NW看过。想表明限环境的极端?的确,某些组合一旦成功或许就赢了,不然就是占了绝大的优势。但相应的,被打断后的结果可能就是败北。

№羽____殇 发表于 2012-2-22 13:52:33

表示通篇扯淡加废话。
我保证这不能总结环境的现状。虽然现在有很多变态的T1战术,但是这并不代表游戏王变成了一个猜拳游戏。——扯淡
在测试中我发现发条和兔很容易输给一个时机正好的神警或者激流葬——废话
节选自尼亚群= =

藤原丨尤介 发表于 2012-2-22 13:57:29

№羽____殇 发表于 2012-2-22 13:52 static/image/common/back.gif
表示通篇扯淡加废话。
我保证这不能总结环境的现状。虽然现在有很多变态的T1战术,但是这并不代表游戏王变 ...

时机正好的神警或者激流。请问多少急性子哦。。。对面出豆娘,结果你神警。结果人家出暗武。。。对面出光枪,你奈落,结果人家出裁决。。。。咳,时机还是很重要的。这绝对不是废话!

再有,人家大风,你后场神宣和激流。结果你神宣,人家补上旋风- -233这也是时机问题吧。。。

初音ミクのねこ 发表于 2012-2-22 14:01:22

说句良心话...主流之间的较量其实个别成败不会怎么改变环境...卡表其实也是套钱的手段,猜拳游戏其实也OK吧.如果双方都是猜拳的话,如果是以各大主流卡组为视角的话那明显是把许许多多的其他玩法置于一个不公平的地位,凭什么我为了不让你出个豆娘我就要放神警?很多时候,自己构筑卡组的话为了保证系统的连续性,连旋风都木有...如果是各大主流在逼其他卡组放神警丝袜群C的话,其实就和物种灭绝差不多的方向进行着...

藤原丨尤介 发表于 2012-2-22 14:05:46

本帖最后由 藤原丨尤介 于 2012-2-22 14:06 编辑

初音ミクのねこ 发表于 2012-2-22 14:01 http://www.duelcn.com/static/image/common/back.gif
说句良心话...主流之间的较量其实个别成败不会怎么改变环境...卡表其实也是套钱的手段,猜拳游戏其实也OK吧. ...

如,对面发条。自己后攻,多半死。也许像熔岩那样的有逆转可能,纯甲虫同理。
然后对面后攻,对面多半死了。等他的将是一排坑(其实一张奈落,或者神警足以。)
再者对面又先攻,自己这盘必然要有所准备。乌鸦丝袜少不了(所以完全没必要什么主卡3G或者3丝袜之类的。)所以这第三盘胜负很难说。
当然,发条一开始就后攻那就另当别论了。

我只想说,可玩性还是有的,发条也没那么可怕。只是一种心理压制而已。(一来就被销手至少4张,阴影是有的。。。)


pinkbeen 发表于 2012-2-22 16:05:24

虽然现在有很多变态的T1战术,但是这并不代表游戏王变成了一个猜拳游戏。——无法认同

不论现在的发条一回合削光还是以前一回合3紫炎甚至3流天,已经把先攻优势无限扩大了。。。在这样下去沦落为猜拳游戏也不是不可能啊

翻地博士 发表于 2012-2-22 16:48:38

认同文章观点

首先,我们之所以认为甲虫发条BT的原因毫无疑问就是因为它们只是一个系列,天生就有可怕的拉卡差能力
而以前那些如猫僧都是玩家琢磨出来的

孢子和鳞茎确实是大打击,一场比赛只能发一次但是一般来说一场比赛必然发一次

但是变态卡确实不好针对
比如你说甲虫发条变态,甲虫怕大宇宙,发条削怕暗黑界,索性来个次元暗黑界得了(笑)

总之就是这么回事,31后不用甲虫发条、兔什么也不是不能打,虽然会比较艰难无误,但是不等于没有出路

godsay5604 发表于 2012-2-22 17:26:40

翻地博士 发表于 2012-2-22 16:48 static/image/common/back.gif
认同文章观点

首先,我们之所以认为甲虫发条BT的原因毫无疑问就是因为它们只是一个系列,天生就有可怕的 ...

发条削什么时候怕暗黑界了?博士请阅读发条效果100遍..

kif 发表于 2012-2-22 20:56:47

RE:

藤原丨尤介 发表于 2012-2-22 13:57 static/image/common/back.gif
时机正好的神警或者激流。请问多少急性子哦。。。对面出豆娘,结果你神警。结果人家出暗武。。。对面出光 ...

这已经不是时机问题了,那样的情况无论什么时候发动,结果不是一样吗。可以归结为,人品问题
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